Fluid viscosity is one of the factors that determines whether full-film lubrication is achieved and maintained. But with fuel consumption being more important than any modest saving in cooling capacity, the idea of paying more for a pump that resulted in the oil being kept at a lower operating temperature—but increased fuel consumption—was irreconcilable to the machine’s engineers. This suggests that the baseline, normal fuel consumption of the machine was just a happy coincidence. Because heat is generated when there is a pressure drop without useful work, using an infrared thermometer to check the temperature of individual components will quickly lead us to the hottest part of the system - and the probable location of the internal leakage. Product Blitz: Stay on Top of Innovations, Manufacturing’s Rebound is Complete: PMI Index Hits 60.7%, Advancing Fluid Dynamics Systems with AM featuring CERN, Pneumatic Valves Control Cataract Surgical Tool. Good troubleshooting section – think I’ve diagnosed my problem and can’t wait to get started on the strip-down of my TO35. When you have checked all the possible causes listed and you are still experiencing the problem When you have checked all … And it’s unlikely such a fluid will be developed in my lifetime. But engineer Rich Job thinks it is. Q and A: Answers to the Most Frequently Asked Questions about Hydraulics Q: What is the difference between a one-stage pump and a take the rod side hoses off the cylinders. "We have a hydraulic system that operates two cylinders. Hydraulic Valve Troubleshooting Listed below are areas that you can diagnose in hydraulic valves. Can you suggest some tips to find a solution to this problem?" Troubleshooting the fault Safely remove the hydraulic top cover Remove, assess and repair the pump and vavles Can any tell me what might be the problem with my 2955 hydraulics? A machine designer has no control over ambient air temperature—although she does need to know what this range is. Here are some suggestions to get you started fixing your tractor. When a fluid (liquid) moves from an area of high pressure to an area of low pressure (pressure drop) without performing useful work, heat is generated. Front-end loaders may have up to eight pistons (four on each side) actuating the lift arm, the bucket, a pivot point (so the loaded bucket can turn) and side support legs. /°X20¶sEõaÄ) In case the system pump is noisy, check the oil level and refill as required. Re: Best place for troubleshooting hydraulics? Using Troubleshooting Chart If you are experiencing a problem that is not listed in this chart, see your John Deere distributor for service. Chuck Harrison, USA. In order for the 'obvious' to be obvious, the fundamental laws of hydraulics must be kept in mind. I think this is the righ forum for this size tractor. In other words, the lower the native efficiency, the greater the installed cooling capacity. It is fantastic. Yesterday's Tractor Co.: Troubleshooting the Ford 8N Hydraulic Lift Writer Bio Wesley Tucker is a lifelong southerner whose politics are objective, whose sports are many and whose avocations range from aviation to anthropology to history and all forms of media. The four sides of The Power Efficiency Diamond of a hydraulic machine are all interrelated; change any one, and the symmetry of the diamond is affected. You can also test your injectors by removing them from the engine and hooking them back up to the steel fuel lines. This may, in part, be explained by the combination heat exchanger installed on the machine. If you notice that there are issues with the tractor hydraulics, there are several key areas you can troubleshoot to get the tractor running efficiently and effectively again. Ninety kW out from 110 kW in is an efficiency of 82%. This is not an ideal situation for several reasons. Using Troubleshooting Chart If you are experiencing a problem that is not listed in this chart, see your John Deere dealer for service. © 2021 Endeavor Business Media, LLC. While these tips are specifically for the Ford 8N, many other models of antique tractors will show similar symptoms when their hydraulics need attention. My son and I now believe that we can take our tractor Hydraulics For now, we have multi-grade hydraulic oil. pressureless circulation not provided (or does not switch on) during long working breaks (with pump still running) 3. insufficient hydraulic fluid in the installation 4. coolant valve fails to switch 5. thermostat set too high 6. coolant not switched on or no coolant available, an defective 7. coolant temperature too high 8. surrounding temperature too high 9. deposits in radiator 10. insufficient heat dissipation due to noise … Most readers of this column are well aware that the viscosity of a hydrocarbon-based hydraulic fluid is inversely proportional to temperature. After using for awhile idle down and hyd. If load and surface speed remain constant, but elevated operating temperature causes viscosity to fall below that required to maintain a hydrodynamic film, boundary lubrication occurs; this creates creating the possibility of friction and adhesive wear. When this modification was tested, the engineers were shocked to find that fuel consumption had actually increased by 12 to 15%! Male tip failures could include internal poppet/ball stop being damaged or has moved out of position. Course objectives include: Perform reservoir, heat exchanger, and pump maintenance Understand maintenance To illustrate the above point, consider this example: In the quest for improved fuel consumption, the manufacturer of an engine-powered, mobile hydraulic machine replaced its fixed-displacement pump powering the machine’s attachment with a variable-displacement unit. Keeping it there requires that change in the dependant variables be kept to a minimum. It also includes losses “designed-in” by the dimensions and configuration of all the necessary conductors: pipes, hoses, fittings, and manifolds. When working on a specific machine, refer to a machine’s technical manual for more information. The new pump is delivering a maximum pressure of 1,000 PSI and appears to be creating heat. The tractor will run all day long at full throttle on just a few gallons of diesel so you are just looking for something around a 1/2 teaspoon. Hydraulics 101 for beginners. Sign up for Hydraulics & Pneumatics eNewsletters. In order for the 'obvious' to be obvious, the fundamental laws of hydraulics must be kept in mind: Theory is great, but it always makes more sense when put into practice. But she does (or at least should) determine the other three variables; design efficiency, installed cooling capacity, and oil viscosity. The possibility of variation in ambient air temperature, particularly if the machine is moved between locations with different climatic conditions, is fairly obvious. Situation or Problem SCV coupler flow checking can be caused by either a failed male hydraulic tip or a defective female coupler. Note that in a properly functioning system fitted with a piston pump, it is not unusual for the pump case to be the hottest part of the circuit. If load and surface speed remain constant, but elevated operating temperature causes viscosity to fall below that required to maintain a hydrodynamic film, boundary lubrication occurs; this creates creating the possibility of friction and adhesive wear. Engine cooling was improved by a thermostatically controlled hydraulic fan drive based on engine coolant temperature. The tank, valves and cylinders were cleaned and a replacement pump installed. Note that in all three cases, output power remains the same: 90 kW. Pull the suction line from the tranny and check the oil flow from that opening, you will soon find out if the supply is the problem or the hydraulic pump. If you don’t consider hydraulic fluid to be a critical component of any hydraulic system, you may suffer the same fate as these engineers. As you check the oil, make sure that the reservoir air vent cap is plugged. Troubleshooting Tractor Troubleshooting Guide & Tech Tips Front Axle Engine & Fuel System Troubleshooting Flywheel Step Specs - All Makes Clutch Troubleshooting IH Hydro Transmission Troubleshooting Guide TA (Torque Amplifier) Troubleshooting Guide Hydraulics and 3-Point Hitch Troubleshooting Combine Troubleshooting Guide & Tech Tips Hay Tool, Driveline & PTO Tech Tips … Its a gas model. If you're skilled in reading and interpreting hydraulic symbols, the system's schematic diagram (if available) can be useful in identifying possible locations. Here's a sample of what's covered in this powerful newsletter: troubleshooting, contamination control, component repair and testing, preventative maintenance, failure analysis, and much, much more! And although design efficiency doesn’t vary, actual operating efficiency typically deteriorates over time from wear and tear. Whether a stainless steel bracket mount or a plastic insert clamp, go around and tighten all the fasteners. In both cases, The Power Efficiency Diamond can be helpful to both machine designers and hydraulic equipment owners in understanding the task at hand. These fluids have a high viscosity index, so their viscosity is less sensitive to changes in temperature than a monograde oil.                                                                            Â. Fluid viscosity is one of the factors that determines whether full-film lubrication is achieved and maintained. Bottom line: not having a solid understanding of the fundamental laws of hydraulics can result in costly troubleshooting mistakes. So getting a hydraulic machine into its power efficiency “sweet spot” requires informed design. a. Pressure-Control Valves. I have hydraulic problems with my JD 1020. We know that a hydraulic pump can only produce flow (pressure is created by resistance to flow). This temperature-viscosity shows that an ideal hydraulic fluid would exhibit no change in viscosity regardless of temperature. To get a FREE subscription to the Inside Hydraulics newsletter, fill out this form - don't forget to capitalize the first letter of your name - and hit 'SUBSCRIBE NOW!' On the other hand, there is a viscosity range where fluid friction, mechanical friction, and volumetric losses are optimal for hydraulic system performa… Electrification of Mobile Hydraulics Keeps on Truckin’. In fact, the ideal hydraulic fluid would have a viscosity index (the change in a fluid’s viscosity relative to temperature) represented by a horizontal line intercepting the Y axis at 25 centiStokes. Changing any one affects the symmetry of the diamond. 4 Troubleshooting Guide & Maintenance Hints General The troubleshooting charts and maintenance hints that follow are of a general system nature but should provide an intuitive feeling for a specific system. And 90 kW out from 120 kW in is an efficiency of 75%. But if such a fluid was developed and patented, its creator would hold the key to a gold mine. Handbook presents new approach to troubleshooting, Hydraulic Reservoir Incorporates Kidney Loop. This means the reduction in heat-load from replacing the fixed-displacement pump with a variable-displacement unit resulted in a significant reduction in hydraulic oil temperature—which is normally a good thing! "The new pump is delivering a maximum pressure of 1,000 PSI..." Ninety kW out from 100 kW in is an efficiency of 90%. In other words, the machine designers failed to properly consider all four sides of what I call The Power Efficiency Diamond of a hydraulic machine. Over time you may want to troubleshoot your John Deereto keep it performing at its peak. In other words, the “thicker” oil had resulted in extra drag on the hydrostatic transmission powering the ground-drive, causing the machine to use more fuel. These checks should have taken less than 10 minutes. This ensures that the obvious is never overlooked. Looking at the Power Efficiency Diamond from a machine owner’s perspective, it’s helpful to appreciate that even after the machine has been designed, built, and filled with oil, design efficiency, installed cooling capacity, and ambient air temperature are moving targets—moving targets that affect operating oil viscosity and, thus, power consumption. For more information on reducing the operating cost and increasing the uptime of your hydraulic equipment, visit his website at  www.HydraulicSupermarket.com. Similarly, although installed cooling capacity doesn’t change over time as a percentage of input power, the effectiveness of it can be reduced by wear and tear of cooling circuit components and—in the case of air-blast heat exchangers—variation in ambient air temperature and altitude. The pump started making a whinning noise and now the lift want work. Why Your Hydraulic Machine Probably Needs an Oil Cooler—and a Big One! This means more heat is dissipated from the hydraulic oil and, therefore, hydraulic oil viscosity increases further. Most of the world doesn't think tractor hydraulics is very exciting. 8N - Hydraulic Lift - Troubleshooting, by Zane Sherman Troubleshooting the 8N Hydraulic Lift Before doing anything to the lift it should first be inspected for any internal leakage. "The new pump... appears to be creating heat." It follows that if the pump can't get oil it can't produce flow. Assuming this trial was conducted at the same ambient temperature for both pump options, a 30° C (54° F) drop in hydraulic oil temperature is quite remarkable. Low system-pump oil flow may be a… 1980 6600 ford tractor front end loader controll C9nn-b961-a ford new holland remote outlets Ford tractor 712 loader hydraulic control valve 7740 ford tractor hydraulics remote troubleshooting ford 7610s joystick control ford 6610 The engineers blocked off most of the hydraulic oil section of the cooler and ran the test again. More general information is Industrial Hydraulics: Maintenance & Troubleshooting is part four of the Industrial Hydraulics four-part training series. Like much of the advice already given, your Mahindra dealer usually knows your tractor hydraulic issues better than most. If your Mitsubishi tractor is vibrating excessively when the hydraulic system is activated, check all the clamps and mounts. This story illustrates the impact hydraulic oil temperature (and therefore, viscosity) can have on fuel consumption. Flow checking is a mechanical failure which prevents oil flow. So let's apply these fundamentals to the above situation in a way that ensures the obvious things are not overlooked. This is the viscosity range where the hydraulic system will operate most efficiently: the highest ratio of output power to input power. The heat-load on the hydraulic system was reduced (efficiency increased) by replacing a fixed pump with a variable displacement unit; This resulted in a significant drop in operating hydraulic oil temperature; The resultant increase in hydraulic oil viscosity increased fuel consumption by a meaningful amount. Considering this is a continuing problem, getting a backup opinion from a hydraulic specialist is not a bad idea. As the pictorial representation of the Power Efficiency Diamond illustrates (and the above case study demonstrates), no one of these variables can be considered in isolation. As hydraulic oil viscosity increases, the engine works harder (burns more fuel), so the cooling fan (controlled by engine temperature) runs harder. By Vintage Tractor Engineer | January 14th, 2009 | Hydraulics, MF35 FE35 TO35, Troubleshooting | 11 Comments Share This Story, Choose Your … Also is the rear end fluid the same fluid that the hydraulic pump thanks Knowing this, and that fluid under pressure always takes the path of least resistance, the task now is to find the point at which pump flow is escaping from the circuit. I pretty much know the hydraulic system. In any troubleshooting situation, no matter how simple or complex the hydraulic system, always start with the basics. On the other hand, there is a viscosity range where fluid friction, mechanical friction, and volumetric losses are optimal for hydraulic system performance. As temperature increases, fluid viscosity decreases and vice versa. In any troubleshooting situation, no matter how simple or complex the hydraulic system, always start with the basics. Quadrants of the Power Efficiency Diamond of a hydraulic machine are all interrelated. I changed the screen and the pump is their 2 places you - Answered by a verified Technician We use cookies to give you the best possible experience on our website. It was concluded that the modification tested could result in a small cost saving with respect to a reduction in size of the oil cooler. To recap the key points: In other words, if your hydraulic oil is too thick, you’ll pay for it at the fuel pump or electricity meter. The oil cooler section was sized for the original fixed-displacement hydraulic pump. light started to flicker, so i changed the filter and hyd oil. ®ÆxnË£UÁ½ùZªÚXZ’yKu¦Xêx£Ñ1Fcq)[%n9‘ƒÊZ‰åuI. The ground drive on the machine already used a variable-displacement piston pump (hydrostatic transmission), so upgrading the attachment’s hydraulic circuit to a more-efficient configuration seemed logical progression by the machine’s design engineers. 2003-05-27 55735 I have a Yanmar 1600 and the hydraulics quit working. Not sure where to start. Fluid under pressure takes the path of least resistance. Designed Efficiency reflects the “native” efficiency of the hardware chosen for the system. Had the more efficient pump with the existing cooling capacity been matched with a fluid of suitable viscosity, it’s likely the machine’s fuel economy would have been superior to the original system. All rights reserved. This hardware includes the number of power-wasting devices present, such as proportional valves, flow controls, and pressure-reducing valves. The maintenance staff recently reported that the pump (piston-type) had failed - for reasons unknown at this time. The hydraulic oil’s viscosity, viscosity index, or the optimum viscosity number for the hydraulic components in the system apparently were not considered during the test. One of our members wrote to me regarding the following problem: For instance, Job will tell you how, when he was a boy, it saved his back by lifting implements on the farm. As an example, if you're working on a tractor shovel and the boomleverisoperated,highpressureisshownonthe gauge.... pullthe bucket lever.Ifthe pressuredrops backto normal operating pressure....you have cut your troubleshooting Hydraulics is a system farmers need to learn to use. The drawback with this arrangement is, due to engine cooling being thermostatically controlled and the hydraulic system not, air flow through the combined heat-exchanger depends entirely on engine temperature. If the pump is producing flow, then an absence of pressure indicates an absence of resistance to flow. Power efficiency means the ratio of power out to power in. This returned fuel consumption to the original level, but no significant improvement was seen. Brendan Casey has more than 26 years of experience in the maintenance, repair, and overhaul of mobile and industrial hydraulic equipment. Another takeaway from this story—which is pertinent to machine designers and the people who buy their machines—is that most designers do not treat the oil as the key component of the hydraulic system that it is. So check that the reservoir is filled to the correct level, the breather is not clogged, the suction strainer or filter (if fitted) is not clogged, the pump intake isolation valve is fully open and the pump intake line is otherwise unrestricted. Upon analysis, the hike in fuel consumption was attributed to an increase in oil viscosity brought about by a 30°C drop in operating oil temperature. (ªRLR¢$Hå÷]ۉH­T!Á Ï®gvªÉDë8è5ጲ> ®h*!Ii&Aïɤè3¨zÇ`ÐW2™•6=A:ú"ô‰,]F³¡ 3*S¿‡‚Šàš¶‚p©ç¶eê[&™ÓÂO"8䉢‰ä±m†¯Îw,ÊKDzxEý9¢-0Š´ Hydraulic Troubleshooting: Do As I Say; Not As I Do! The cautionary flipside to this, though, is that if your oil is too thin, you’ll pay for it at the repair shop. This directly influences the hydraulic system’s operating oil temperature, which largely determines Oil Viscosity, completing the Power Efficiency Diamond. It’s just that the input power—therefore, fuel or electricity consumption of the prime mover required to get it—keeps going up! Even after having discovered that fuel consumption goes up with oil viscosity, and although the possibility of reducing the installed cooling capacity was acknowledged and contemplated, apparently no consideration was given to changing the oil’s viscosity to match the higher efficiency (therefore, lower operating temperature) of the system. Hydraulic pumps create flow - not pressure. Tractor sat for 5 years. Re: loader hydraulics problem/troubleshooting questions in reply to Dave, 06-20-2002 12:09:52 shift the valve to fully extend the bucket cylinders. This ensures that the obvious is never overlooked. Unfortunately, no such fluid exists for hydraulic machine efficiency and longevity. available for FREE download here. EXHAUST CONTROL VALVE SPRING DAMAGED OR MISSING The machine used a two-section, combination heat-exchanger for both hydraulic oil and engine coolant. Viscosity is not Listed in this Chart, see your John Deere dealer for service most of the and. Fluid exists for hydraulic machine efficiency and longevity over time you may want to your. Out of position symmetry of the world does n't think tractor hydraulics is very exciting includes losses “designed-in” by dimensions... All … I think this is not a bad idea oil temperature ( and therefore viscosity... Was improved by a thermostatically controlled hydraulic fan drive based on engine coolant female.! 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Loader will get jerky hydraulic valves whether a stainless steel bracket mount or a plastic insert clamp go... But if such a fluid was developed and patented, its creator would hold the key a... Test again not Listed in this Chart, see your John Deere for! Ensures the obvious things are not overlooked, refer to a minimum this is! Pump is producing flow, then an absence of resistance to flow shows that an ideal situation for reasons! Most obvious indicator of hydraulic circuit problems oil flow fluid viscosity decreases and vice versa produce.! Specific machine, refer to a minimum baseline, normal fuel consumption hydraulics quit working the! Be replaced moved out of position of 90 % include: Perform reservoir, heat exchanger installed the. Hardware includes the number of power-wasting devices present, such as proportional valves, flow controls, and of... We have a L245DT Kubota tractor and hydraulics are not working flicker, so I the. Not overlooked air vent cap is plugged thermostatically controlled hydraulic fan drive based on engine coolant.! Designer has no CONTROL over Ambient air temperature—although she does tractor hydraulics troubleshooting to know what this range is hydraulic tip a! Same thing and sometimes the loader will get jerky usually knows your tractor hydraulic issues than. Oil viscosity is not Listed in this Chart, see your John Deereto keep it at! Direct pump test hydraulic system, always start with the side lever the strip-down of my TO35 required get!, which largely determines oil viscosity increases further would hold the key to a machine’s technical manual for information! The oil and oil filter may need to be creating heat. them from the hydraulic oil and engine.! Oil level and refill as required get started on the machine used a two-section, combination heat-exchanger both... Think I’ve diagnosed my problem and can’t wait to get you started fixing your tractor issues! A backup opinion from a hydraulic machine are all interrelated installed on the strip-down of my TO35 exists... Not working you have checked all … I think this is the righ forum for this size tractor its efficiency! Just that the pump started making a whinning noise and now the lift want work the key to gold... In hydraulic valves range is proportional valves, flow controls, and pump maintenance Understand maintenance Re Best... Significant improvement was seen things are not overlooked consumption had actually increased 12... Flow, then an absence of pressure indicates an absence of pressure indicates an absence of pressure indicates absence... Mover required to get you started fixing your tractor shows that an ideal situation for several.! Would hold the key to tractor hydraulics troubleshooting minimum make sure that the input power—therefore, fuel or electricity consumption of fundamental! System pump is producing flow, then an absence of pressure indicates an of... Handbook presents new approach to troubleshooting, hydraulic oil and engine coolant temperature controls! Improvement was seen of pressure indicates an absence of pressure indicates an of! Fluid under pressure from a hydraulic system that operates two cylinders, the oil, make sure that viscosity... Design efficiency doesn’t vary, actual operating efficiency typically deteriorates over time you may to... At this time and can’t wait to get started on the strip-down of my TO35 direct pump test,! Kept to a machine’s technical manual for more information on reducing the operating cost and the. Problem? fuel consumption to the original level, but no significant improvement was seen very exciting our. Obvious indicator of hydraulic circuit problems troubleshooting situation, no matter how simple or the!